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Flint, Michigan: Urban Disaster, or Just Good Corporate Governance?  

kzoopair 73M/71F
8610 posts
1/28/2016 4:07 pm
Flint, Michigan: Urban Disaster, or Just Good Corporate Governance?


Flint, Michigan: Urban Disaster, or Just Good Corporate Governance? by PD

When Rick Snyder, Michigan's former CEO & self-professed 'Nerd' governor discovered that his personal decisions were directly responsible for turning Flint, Michigan's water supply into a toxic, lead-infused mess, he took immediate action (well…two years late), the same kind of immediate action that any powerful, effective CEO would take in such a situation:

He hired two new PR firms and conceded at a national press conference that the situation in Flint would "probably be a slight stain on (his) legacy."

Yikes.

Priorities, huh? Good thing he got right on that.

Actually, by revealing his priorities in such a bald and tone-deaf way, Governor Snyder unintentionally shone a surgical-wattage light on why good governance and good corporate management are not the same thing, nor should they be the same thing.

No matter how many political sound bytes we hear to the contrary, being a successful businessman is not a viable credential for being a decent public servant.

It's worth doing a little thought experiment at this point:

Just imagine, if Rick Snyder could do this much violence to the people of Michigan in four years just by running it like an efficient corporation, what could Donald Trump do to the U.S. over the same period of time by applying the same methods?

If that thought doesn't scare the pants off you, keep reading.

The Rick Snyder Guide to Ridding Your State of Pesky Poor People

A lot of political progressives believe that corporations are immoral and evil, but corporations are not immoral by design. Corporations are amoral. The purpose of organizing a business as a corporation is not to create evil but to generate the most profit with the least liability.

A corporation is essentially a profit-making machine. Should this machine end up taking harmful actions in the pursuit of profit, the individual people running the corporation can't be blamed because the corporation did the harm, not the people. The corporate structure protects the individuals running it.

Corporations may or may not be required to redress those harmed by their actions, but often, even this consequence turns out to be inconsequential. How badly was Wall Street harmed by nearly tanking the world economy? World Con? Dow Chemical?

You get my drift.

Corporations may do evil in the pursuit of profit, but that's more of a side effect than an expressed intent.

Running a government like a corporation therefore means valuing what and who is profitable above all else, and taking no personal responsibility for harmful outcomes in the process of appling those values. Rick Snyder is doing exactly that and he is doing it consistently and well.

Sadly, representative government gets in the way of efficient corporate management, especially when it comes to unprofitable segments of the governed. Immediately recognizing this troubling conflict of interest between government and good corporate management, Rick Snyder decided to simply waive the rights of citizens in poor cities and instead appoint his own city managers to take over and make all their decisions for them.

OK, the jury is still out on whether that is even constitutional (because so far there hasn't been a jury or a constitutional inquiry), but Snyder did it anyway.

When a statewide ballot initiative calling for the repeal of the city manager provision passed overwhelmingly in the last election, Snyder and the GOP-controlled legislature changed a few phrases of the old law and simply reinstated it under a different name, immediately.

So, if you live in Michigan and your city is poor, you have no rights. Sorry.

This policy had far-reaching effects almost as soon as Snyder took office, and not just for cities.

School teachers instantly became the target of brutal cost/benefit analyses and many teaching positions were eliminated in poor cities and towns across Michigan. State employees similarly became the butt of severe ridicule and their access to unions, pensions, and decent wages was slashed.

Benton Harbor, a city consisting pretty much entirely of desperately poor blacks had its local government shut down and taken over by a state-appointed city manager in 2008. That city manager decided that what would really help the poverty stricken people of Benton Harbor would be to sell their Lake Michigan access and empty land to a private developer.

That developer is currently building an exclusive private golf resort with an expensive beachfront hotel on land that once belonged to the citizens of Benton Harbor.

The people of Benton Harbor will not be able to use that resort or that golf course. The likelihood that they will be employed in these exclusive developments is not looking good either.

Back before the days when we thought corporations and governments were the same thing, that used to be called a 'land grab'. Now it's just an example of maximizing your profit margin: giving to the profitable the spoils of the profit-less

No one should be surprised that Rick Snyder's city managers are people he knew from his CEO days, his friends and cronies and familiars. The fact that his CEO days were at Gateway, that 90's computer retailer that sold desktop PCs packed in witty cow boxes seems not to matter.

Gateway is long gone, sold to China, and the cow box thing was kind of stupid.

The point is, if you are a CEO of something, even outsourced cow boxes, people figure you know what you are doing, even if all you know how to do is delegate and hire PR firms.

Maybe we need to start examining this government=business equation more critically.

Eat the Poor

Have you noticed that, except for random general complaints against food stamp recipients, no one talks about poverty anymore?

Most Americans today think of themselves as "middle class", and this seems to be so whether they make $12,000/year or $120,000 or $400,000; whether they are employed, between jobs, retired, or other; whether they live in shared efficiency apartments or trailers or gated communities.

The reason everyone has decided to be middle class these days is that we've pretty much accepted the proposition that poverty is shameful.

We don't talk about poverty, and we most especially don't talk about our own poverty, because we feel ashamed. Good hard working people are rewarded with wealth, right? So if you don't have enough, you must not be enough.

This shaming of the poor is great for rich people and even better for corporations. You don't have to pay people well or treat people well if they have already proven their unworthiness by having no money.

When government-run-like corporation steals land from the poor, or takes away their rights to representative government, or poisons their water to save a paltry amount of money and then refuses to repair the damage done, no guilt or liability is admitted, because these people, these poor people, are not profitable concerns. They have no wealth, they generate no profit.

And what's more, most of them are black.

Swift's Modest Proposal doesn't read as satire in such a world, it reads as a poor business plan, since even the corporate elite have a negative reaction to consuming cooked babies.

Why should they have to consider such a thing?

They can afford that $45 a pound steak and the right wine to go with it.

And the poor?

Never mind cake: Let them drink the water in Flint.

As Flint Goes, So Goes the Nation

I live in West Michigan, roughly 130 miles southwest of Flint. The city where I live is also an aging industrial center that has recently seen jobs dry up and blow away, specifically northward, to the GOP-leaning city of Grand Rapids.

It is another unintended artifact of corporate governance that the cities most likely to be unprofitable are also the ones most likely to vote Democratic: Flint, Detroit, Kalamazoo.

I retired at 62 when I could no longer get a decent job to save my life, and that makes me just another unprofitable person in an unprofitable city in Michigan, but that, for me, was an upgrade, since before that I lived in Indiana.

A couple years ago, the worst inland oil spill of all time happened where I live now, and not long after a half-assed clean up effort, the corporation responsible for that spill hired a PR firm to make TV spots about how the oil spill actually made the rivers and wilderness areas better than before.

Nothing like a buttload of sticky, toxic, tar sand oil spilled all over field and stream to improve the beauty of nature, huh?

America has become increasingly corporate over the last three decades, and that corporatization has mostly benefited the super-rich, who are now the super-duper-rich and getting richer by the minute.

The rest of us, not so much.

Millions of middle class people are falling into poverty, while clinging to the middle class title to cushion the anger and shame.

I didn't like working for corporations, and I like being governed by them even less. All over the U.S., infrastructure is crumbling at an astonishing rate. In some places, like Flint MI, that decay is being helped along by callous GOP governors. In others, like Porter Ranch CA, amoral corporations that only care about money neglect toxic situations of their own making.

In still other places, like San Francisco, the new techie elite are pushing people out of their own neighborhoods and turning entire cities into expensive Whole Foods-Starbucks-Sushi-bar meccas accessible only to young hip millionaires.

The midwest may be on the crest of this new and destructive wave, but it's what's on the menu for everyone who didn't inherit a whole lot of Benjamins. If that seems like a good thing to you, by all means, continue carrying on as if you are perfectly safe and everything is fine.

If not, you might want to think about making some noise.

Like, now.




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kzoopair 73M/71F
25831 posts
1/28/2016 4:25 pm

    Quoting positively4you:
    Where was the EPA during this water deal? I thought they watched everything.
    Or is that another inadequate gov't. entity?
It's inadequate if you defund it.

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kzoopair 73M/71F
25831 posts
1/28/2016 5:03 pm

    Quoting mcmaniac:
    It's a lose, lose situation, we can't trust the politicians, we can't trust big business, and between the 2, they have all the money and all the power. United We're Fucked!
There are a lot more of us than there are of them, mac. Recently I heard an ex con say: "Be careful when you push a man to the point where he's got nothing to lose. That's when he's dangerous." If we were united, they'd be fucked.

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kzoopair 73M/71F
25831 posts
1/28/2016 5:08 pm

    Quoting  :

A lot of us are on that page. A lot of young people recognize that huge corporations own government lock, stock and barrel and are seeking other methods of redress outside of government. Sometimes they're even successful. People do tend to get the kind of government they deserve- apathy begets...more apathy. But working people never get anything that they don't fight for. Sooner or later, there will be blood.

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tickles4us 62M
7262 posts
1/28/2016 5:52 pm

I was wondering just what the problem was with your Governor. But I had only heard bits and pieces on the news about the Flint water issue. Given your post I can understand what the problem is now.

All the more reason we need to get Bernie elected as he wants the money out of government (starting with the election process and the lobbyists). I don't believe Hillary would do a damn thing about it. Government is better run as a regulator and monopoly controller then as a business. Government is supposed to be looking after the best interests of the people and seeing to it that the corporate world doesn't exploit the people or the resources.

The people need to realize that efficiency has a price. There is a reason that government doesn't always work efficiently and that it is sometimes in the peoples best interest. We all know about corporate shortcuts and what they actually end up costing the people.

Vive La Difference


kzoopair 73M/71F
25831 posts
1/28/2016 6:07 pm

    Quoting tickles4us:
    I was wondering just what the problem was with your Governor. But I had only heard bits and pieces on the news about the Flint water issue. Given your post I can understand what the problem is now.

    All the more reason we need to get Bernie elected as he wants the money out of government (starting with the election process and the lobbyists). I don't believe Hillary would do a damn thing about it. Government is better run as a regulator and monopoly controller then as a business. Government is supposed to be looking after the best interests of the people and seeing to it that the corporate world doesn't exploit the people or the resources.

    The people need to realize that efficiency has a price. There is a reason that government doesn't always work efficiently and that it is sometimes in the peoples best interest. We all know about corporate shortcuts and what they actually end up costing the people.
You and I think alike about this, Tickles. Rick Snyder recently said that he saw this as "his Katrina". As if Hurricane Katrina were a government made disaster! Government certainly reacted poorly during and after Katrina, but Bush didn't cause a hurricane, whatever his sins. Snyder is directly responsible for this- he made it happen- and all he's worried about is protecting his reputation. He's still concentrating on trying to make government profitable! There are no plans by the state government to remedy the situation, which is why he tried to pass the buck to the federal government and wash his hands of his own malfeasance. He sounds tone deaf because he is tone deaf. He still doesn't get that human beings have intrinsic value.

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kzoopair 73M/71F
25831 posts
1/28/2016 6:11 pm

    Quoting  :

You can see who has visited this post and who has been too chickenshit to make any comment. We became not callous, but chickenshit. We need to replace the eagle with a fucking chicken.

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08540Tantrafun 60M  
1072 posts
1/28/2016 6:25 pm

Great post PD. Corporatism has replaced colonialism. It is a huge mistake wasting any time on the presidential race. Congress has an approval rating of 11%. But 96.4% get reelected again and again. They make the laws and spend our money, not the president. Replace them if you want change. Multinational corporations and government has merged into one entity.

Our republic works only when we have access to timely and accurate information. What we have now is bloviating commenters with private agendas and conflict of interest pushing propaganda in the guise of news. Both the media and the White house hire spouses and former top officials. These vacuous ciphers work from the same taking points and agenda on behalf of their real boses the Multinationals. The following is just a small list from the current administration. Even a partial list is bigger than your post. Bush administration did the same thing. It is a circle jerk and cluster fuck that's going on in washington and New York and it is not the people from LesbianPersonals who are doing it.

George Stephanopoulos was White House Communications Director, then Senior Advisor for Policy and Strategy to President Clinton.

ABC News executive producer Ian Cameron is married to Susan Rice, National Security Adviser.

ABC News President Ben Sherwood, is the brother of Elizabeth Sherwood-Randall, a top national-security adviser to President Obama.

CBS News President David Rhodes, is the brother of Benjamin Rhodes, Ben Rhodes "Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Advisor for Strategic Communications.

CNN’s deputy Washington bureau chief, Virginia Moseley, is married to Tom Nides, who was deputy secretary of state under Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Willow Bay, Senior Editor for the Huffington Post and a special correspondent for Bloomberg Television is married to Robert Iger CEO Walt Disney Company who owns ABC news.

Biden's spokeswoman Kendra Barkoff is married to Jonathan Lamy senior VP of communications at the Recording Industry Association of America.

James O'Beirne, White House liaison at the Pentagon is married to Kate O'Beirne the Washington editor of National Review, CNN's Crossfire, as well as a commentator for the News Hour with Jim Lehrer

Christiane Amanpour is married to James Rubin, who served under Bill Clinton as the State Department's chief spokesman.

Matthew Cooper, Time magazine correspondent is married to Mandy Grunwald, chief ad strategist in Sen. Hillary Clinton's campaign

.Cokie Roberts is the daughter of a late House Majority Leader. Cokie is married to Steven Roberts,The New York Times former Washington, D.C. bureau chief. He at U.S. News & World Report is a contributing editor. As a Washington pundit, Roberts appears regularly on ABC Radio, Washington Week in Review, CNN, Hardball with Chris Matthews. He often fills in as substitute host of The Diane Rehm Show on NPR (National Public Radio). He also appears regularly on America Abroad. Together they write a nationally syndicated newspaper column and are contributing writers for USA Weekend, a Sunday magazine that appears in 500 newspapers nationwide.

NPR, Nina Totenberg was married to Colorado Senator Floyd Haskell, until he died a few years ago.

Grover Norquist's wife Samah Alrayyes is "Deputy Assistant Administrator for LPA, , Public Affairs Specialist in Middle Eastern Affairs" at USAid For The American People.

Los Angeles Times political reporter Ronald Brownstein is married to Eileen McMenamin, chief spokeswoman for Sen. John McCain.

Nina Easton, Fortune magazine Washington bureau chief and Fox News analyst, is married to, Russ Schriefer, media strategist for McCain. Brownstein and Easton were once married to each other, and the current spouse of each is also McCain operatives.

NBC's Campbell Brown is married to Dan Senor, a former White House aide and spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq

Anne Applebaum, columnist for the Washington Post is married to Radek Sikorski, Poland's Defense Minister and a former fellow of the American Enterprise Institute .

White House press secretary Jay Carney’s wife is Claire Shipman, reporter for ABC.

NPR’s White House correspondent, Ari Shapiro, is married to Michael Gottlieb, who joined the White House counsel’s office.

Washington post's Justice Department reporter, Sari Horwitz, is married to William B. Schultz, the general counsel of the Department of Health and Human Services.

Biden’s communications director, Shailagh Murray, is married to Neil King, one of the Wall Street Journal’s top political reporters. Etc.

Six major corporate media that control 90 percent of our information have significant business contracts with the government. These media elite are married to, or are relatives of government elite. Most of the remaining family not in media or government work as lobbyists or employees of think tanks. So when you see Cristian Amnpour interviewing James Rubin on CNN, they could be doing it from their home office both naked from their waist down, after screwing each other, now screwing the whole world on behalf of their bosses.

"Rules for happiness: something to do, someone to love, something to hope for.”― Immanuel Kant .


kzoopair 73M/71F
25831 posts
1/28/2016 6:41 pm

    Quoting 08540Tantrafun:
    Great post PD. Corporatism has replaced colonialism. It is a huge mistake wasting any time on the presidential race. Congress has an approval rating of 11%. But 96.4% get reelected again and again. They make the laws and spend our money, not the president. Replace them if you want change. Multinational corporations and government has merged into one entity.

    Our republic works only when we have access to timely and accurate information. What we have now is bloviating commenters with private agendas and conflict of interest pushing propaganda in the guise of news. Both the media and the White house hire spouses and former top officials. These vacuous ciphers work from the same taking points and agenda on behalf of their real boses the Multinationals. The following is just a small list from the current administration. Even a partial list is bigger than your post. Bush administration did the same thing. It is a circle jerk and cluster fuck that's going on in washington and New York and it is not the people from LesbianPersonals who are doing it.

    George Stephanopoulos was White House Communications Director, then Senior Advisor for Policy and Strategy to President Clinton.

    ABC News executive producer Ian Cameron is married to Susan Rice, National Security Adviser.

    ABC News President Ben Sherwood, is the brother of Elizabeth Sherwood-Randall, a top national-security adviser to President Obama.

    CBS News President David Rhodes, is the brother of Benjamin Rhodes, Ben Rhodes "Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Advisor for Strategic Communications.

    CNN’s deputy Washington bureau chief, Virginia Moseley, is married to Tom Nides, who was deputy secretary of state under Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    Willow Bay, Senior Editor for the Huffington Post and a special correspondent for Bloomberg Television is married to Robert Iger CEO Walt Disney Company who owns ABC news.

    Biden's spokeswoman Kendra Barkoff is married to Jonathan Lamy senior VP of communications at the Recording Industry Association of America.

    James O'Beirne, White House liaison at the Pentagon is married to Kate O'Beirne the Washington editor of National Review, CNN's Crossfire, as well as a commentator for the News Hour with Jim Lehrer

    Christiane Amanpour is married to James Rubin, who served under Bill Clinton as the State Department's chief spokesman.

    Matthew Cooper, Time magazine correspondent is married to Mandy Grunwald, chief ad strategist in Sen. Hillary Clinton's campaign

    .Cokie Roberts is the daughter of a late House Majority Leader. Cokie is married to Steven Roberts,The New York Times former Washington, D.C. bureau chief. He at U.S. News & World Report is a contributing editor. As a Washington pundit, Roberts appears regularly on ABC Radio, Washington Week in Review, CNN, Hardball with Chris Matthews. He often fills in as substitute host of The Diane Rehm Show on NPR (National Public Radio). He also appears regularly on America Abroad. Together they write a nationally syndicated newspaper column and are contributing writers for USA Weekend, a Sunday magazine that appears in 500 newspapers nationwide.

    NPR, Nina Totenberg was married to Colorado Senator Floyd Haskell, until he died a few years ago.

    Grover Norquist's wife Samah Alrayyes is "Deputy Assistant Administrator for LPA, , Public Affairs Specialist in Middle Eastern Affairs" at USAid For The American People.

    Los Angeles Times political reporter Ronald Brownstein is married to Eileen McMenamin, chief spokeswoman for Sen. John McCain.

    Nina Easton, Fortune magazine Washington bureau chief and Fox News analyst, is married to, Russ Schriefer, media strategist for McCain. Brownstein and Easton were once married to each other, and the current spouse of each is also McCain operatives.

    NBC's Campbell Brown is married to Dan Senor, a former White House aide and spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq

    Anne Applebaum, columnist for the Washington Post is married to Radek Sikorski, Poland's Defense Minister and a former fellow of the American Enterprise Institute .

    White House press secretary Jay Carney’s wife is Claire Shipman, reporter for ABC.

    NPR’s White House correspondent, Ari Shapiro, is married to Michael Gottlieb, who joined the White House counsel’s office.

    Washington post's Justice Department reporter, Sari Horwitz, is married to William B. Schultz, the general counsel of the Department of Health and Human Services.

    Biden’s communications director, Shailagh Murray, is married to Neil King, one of the Wall Street Journal’s top political reporters. Etc.

    Six major corporate media that control 90 percent of our information have significant business contracts with the government. These media elite are married to, or are relatives of government elite. Most of the remaining family not in media or government work as lobbyists or employees of think tanks. So when you see Cristian Amnpour interviewing James Rubin on CNN, they could be doing it from their home office both naked from their waist down, after screwing each other, now screwing the whole world on behalf of their bosses.
Well stated. The game is rigged. And we'll continue to be the marks just as long as we're willing to. If you like , you'll love American government in the coming century.

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Furbal1972 51M
18571 posts
1/28/2016 6:44 pm

I have been watching the story unfold in Flint with dismay and disgust.

This should NEVER have happened.
It should have been stopped sooner.

Something went way wrong.

Was someone trying to save a buck by not adding the anti-corrosive agent to the water? .. Some things (a lot of things) are more important than profit.

I don't know much about Rick Snyder or Michigan's politics, but nothing I have see him say or do has brought him any favor.

Heads need to roll.

Read my diary Journal of a Taxi Driver for taxi stories and pictures of flowers and trees.


kzoopair 73M/71F
25831 posts
1/28/2016 6:53 pm

In Michigan, poor people are not seen as an asset. Poor people are quite often black. The policy of Michigan's state government is to dispose of them as expeditiously as possible. They're in the way. They can't be allowed to vote, so we pass voting restrictions to hamper them, in spite of being unable to find any cases of voter fraud. If they were allowed to vote they might just express a preference for treating other human beings like...other human beings, when obviously the dollar is the only important thing.

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humorlife 56M  
5710 posts
1/28/2016 7:09 pm

Lovely thoughts -- ones which should be at the forefront of one's tongue when one hears arguments in favor of small government, or deregulation in the name of economic competitiveness.

Yes, we compete in a downward rush with low wages in China, India, Mexico, and Indonesia. And yes, regulations keep ours higher. But those same regulations keep our tax base higher as well, and at least nominally the EPA, and the Clean Water Act, try to protect us.

Anyone who believes otherwise may have a glass of water from the taps of any of those nations. Or, for that matter, from Flint.

And... it is lovely to have PD blogging semi-regularly again....

Stop in, read, and offer comments at my "swinging as seen in the media" blog, "Confessions of a Lifestyle Man" humorlife, which is also the home of the monthly virtual symposium. New post: The Virtual Symposium Returns Lets Pick A Topic


08540Tantrafun 60M  
1072 posts
1/28/2016 7:44 pm

If you like , you'll love American government in the coming century." Well that is what the European nobility did for centuries till WWII. Even now the royal descendants of Queen Victoria (Queen of the United Kingdom) and of Christian IX (King of Denmark) currently occupy the thrones of Belgium, Denmark, Luxemburg, Norway, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom. At the outbreak of the First World War their grandchildren occupied the thrones of Denmark, Greece, Norway, Germany, Romania, Russia, Spain and the United Kingdom. They married each other for generation they concentrated a genetic anomaly that made them blue in color, hence the name Blue Blood for Nobility.

There is a Fugates family in Kentcky who are also blue. "The remotness and isolation and intermarriage turned them blue. Martin Fugate came to Troublesome Creek from France in 1820 and family folklore says he was blue. He married Elizabeth Smith, who also carried the recessive gene. Of their seven children, four were reported to be blue.

There were no railroads and few roads outside the region, so the community remained small and isolated. The Fugates married other Fugate cousins and families who lived nearby, with names like Combs, Smith, Ritchie and Stacy.

Alva Stacy showed Trost (the researcher) his family tree and remarked, "If you'll notice -- I'm kin to myself," according to Trost.

One of Martin and Elizabeth Fugate's blue boys, Zachariah, married his mother's sister. One of their sons, Levy, married a Ritchie girl and had eight children, one of them Luna. Luna married John E. Stacy and they had 13 children.

" Google 'Kentucky Blues - Indiana University" for the whole article.

"Rules for happiness: something to do, someone to love, something to hope for.”― Immanuel Kant .


kzoopair 73M/71F
25831 posts
1/28/2016 7:56 pm

I've read about them before, Kama. But the uous relationship between business and government is our legacy in America, for better or for worse. It's been this way from the start. The wealthy and powerful won't change it- why the hell would they? There's nothing in it for them. We have to TAKE power, just like they did.

This might not seem like a big deal if you live nowhere near Flint, Michigan. But these are my neighbors and my countrymen. If business can blow them off as insignificant, and poison them nonchalantly due to being unproductive and not useful at present....I'm next. You're next after that.

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khuXBFXM8u 62M
10296 posts
1/28/2016 8:16 pm

There is a saying, "one can't serve too masters"... the government it there to serve it's people, you can try and do that we'll and responsibly, or you can pretend to be a corporation.

Corporations in and of itself are not evil. What happened is the corporate elite have become callous, and the drive for profit is now the drive for personal profit. If the corporation makes some money... great I get to make more money, while I work on a bigger golden parachute for me if it all comes crumbling. Remember the banking bailout... fuck up, ask for a bailout, then write the first check to yourself. It's great work if you can get it.

Find pleasure in giving pleasure


kzoopair 73M/71F
25831 posts
1/28/2016 8:25 pm

    Quoting  :

It's been downplayed in the press. They want acrimony between famous talking heads, for ad revenue. Poor people just look like...poor people. Who gives a shit about them? It's not like they're Kardashians or something. These are American citizens who were willfully poisoned by their elected officials, to save money.

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kzoopair 73M/71F
25831 posts
1/28/2016 8:32 pm

    Quoting khuXBFXM8u:
    There is a saying, "one can't serve too masters"... the government it there to serve it's people, you can try and do that we'll and responsibly, or you can pretend to be a corporation.

    Corporations in and of itself are not evil. What happened is the corporate elite have become callous, and the drive for profit is now the drive for personal profit. If the corporation makes some money... great I get to make more money, while I work on a bigger golden parachute for me if it all comes crumbling. Remember the banking bailout... fuck up, ask for a bailout, then write the first check to yourself. It's great work if you can get it.
The corporate elite doesn't care. They control the means of production, and we're their willing slaves. They control our government as well- so much for oversight. This is a con game- government of the people, by the rich and for the rich. Lincoln must be churning in his grave. And the bulk of us- we just shrug and look away. This is the land of the free and the home of the brave , all right.

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kzoopair 73M/71F
25831 posts
1/28/2016 8:53 pm

Thank you! God, I hope so. We've kept silent about this for too goddamned long. My wife and I have been seething with rage over this. When the fuck are people going to stand up on their hind legs and act like men? If you can't speak up for your neighbor at need, what the hell good are you as a man? In the name of fiscal responsibility our duly elected officials casually poisoned Americans- my own Michiganders- as if they were of no consequence. Because, in the name of a balanced budget, they are of no consequence. Business as usual my ass!

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08540Tantrafun 60M  
1072 posts
1/28/2016 9:23 pm

Bill, I used to live in central Jersey from where we could see statue of liberty between Exxon and Hess refinery. They would open up the fluke when humidity got high so mesurements were not accurate for the courts. Our cars would be covered in yellowish soot. My kids along with many other kids were diagnosed as retarded and had allergies and many medical issues. Fortunately we have relatives in the medical field. We moved.
Now my kids are honor students and have no medical issues. Last week a neighbour who is a real estate agent was fuming that another agent tried to scam him and his client into buying a house near here, where a large drycleaner has been leaking for decades and so many people living near by has cancer and serious health issues. Media won't cover it, the current residents want to dump it on unsuspecting victims.
I have a friend who lives in Staten island New York, who likes to garden. When he put the shovel 9 inches deep, crude oil looking thing oozed out. He lives many miles from Staten Island Land fill. We have become a 2 tear nation of special people and expendables. Flint has made international news, so it will be fixed. The only solution is to vote every incumbent out, at local, state and federal level.
This is a huge problem nationally, hopefully Flint will be the start of a social movement that will restore life and pursuit of happiness for the common man.

"Rules for happiness: something to do, someone to love, something to hope for.”― Immanuel Kant .


kzoopair 73M/71F
25831 posts
1/28/2016 9:37 pm

Maybe Rick Snyder has done us a favor by being such a poor actor. He has never behaved as if he got it, as if he recognized the scope of his sellout. He's bought into his own bullshit so thoroughly that he believes it implicitly. Other than balancing the budget, he doesn't see a problem, aside from salvaging his image, and he concedes that his image might take an unfortunate hit. It's all about how it can be spun in the evening news- nothing to see here, move along. This is just business as usual. I'd like to see Flint get safe drinking water. The start of a movement? I don't know. I get the feeling Americans are more interested in football.

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KItkat1415 61F  
20051 posts
1/29/2016 2:37 am

    Quoting 08540Tantrafun:
    Great post PD. Corporatism has replaced colonialism. It is a huge mistake wasting any time on the presidential race. Congress has an approval rating of 11%. But 96.4% get reelected again and again. They make the laws and spend our money, not the president. Replace them if you want change. Multinational corporations and government has merged into one entity.

    Our republic works only when we have access to timely and accurate information. What we have now is bloviating commenters with private agendas and conflict of interest pushing propaganda in the guise of news. Both the media and the White house hire spouses and former top officials. These vacuous ciphers work from the same taking points and agenda on behalf of their real boses the Multinationals. The following is just a small list from the current administration. Even a partial list is bigger than your post. Bush administration did the same thing. It is a circle jerk and cluster fuck that's going on in washington and New York and it is not the people from LesbianPersonals who are doing it.

    George Stephanopoulos was White House Communications Director, then Senior Advisor for Policy and Strategy to President Clinton.

    ABC News executive producer Ian Cameron is married to Susan Rice, National Security Adviser.

    ABC News President Ben Sherwood, is the brother of Elizabeth Sherwood-Randall, a top national-security adviser to President Obama.

    CBS News President David Rhodes, is the brother of Benjamin Rhodes, Ben Rhodes "Assistant to the President and Deputy National Security Advisor for Strategic Communications.

    CNN’s deputy Washington bureau chief, Virginia Moseley, is married to Tom Nides, who was deputy secretary of state under Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    Willow Bay, Senior Editor for the Huffington Post and a special correspondent for Bloomberg Television is married to Robert Iger CEO Walt Disney Company who owns ABC news.

    Biden's spokeswoman Kendra Barkoff is married to Jonathan Lamy senior VP of communications at the Recording Industry Association of America.

    James O'Beirne, White House liaison at the Pentagon is married to Kate O'Beirne the Washington editor of National Review, CNN's Crossfire, as well as a commentator for the News Hour with Jim Lehrer

    Christiane Amanpour is married to James Rubin, who served under Bill Clinton as the State Department's chief spokesman.

    Matthew Cooper, Time magazine correspondent is married to Mandy Grunwald, chief ad strategist in Sen. Hillary Clinton's campaign

    .Cokie Roberts is the daughter of a late House Majority Leader. Cokie is married to Steven Roberts,The New York Times former Washington, D.C. bureau chief. He at U.S. News & World Report is a contributing editor. As a Washington pundit, Roberts appears regularly on ABC Radio, Washington Week in Review, CNN, Hardball with Chris Matthews. He often fills in as substitute host of The Diane Rehm Show on NPR (National Public Radio). He also appears regularly on America Abroad. Together they write a nationally syndicated newspaper column and are contributing writers for USA Weekend, a Sunday magazine that appears in 500 newspapers nationwide.

    NPR, Nina Totenberg was married to Colorado Senator Floyd Haskell, until he died a few years ago.

    Grover Norquist's wife Samah Alrayyes is "Deputy Assistant Administrator for LPA, , Public Affairs Specialist in Middle Eastern Affairs" at USAid For The American People.

    Los Angeles Times political reporter Ronald Brownstein is married to Eileen McMenamin, chief spokeswoman for Sen. John McCain.

    Nina Easton, Fortune magazine Washington bureau chief and Fox News analyst, is married to, Russ Schriefer, media strategist for McCain. Brownstein and Easton were once married to each other, and the current spouse of each is also McCain operatives.

    NBC's Campbell Brown is married to Dan Senor, a former White House aide and spokesman for the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq

    Anne Applebaum, columnist for the Washington Post is married to Radek Sikorski, Poland's Defense Minister and a former fellow of the American Enterprise Institute .

    White House press secretary Jay Carney’s wife is Claire Shipman, reporter for ABC.

    NPR’s White House correspondent, Ari Shapiro, is married to Michael Gottlieb, who joined the White House counsel’s office.

    Washington post's Justice Department reporter, Sari Horwitz, is married to William B. Schultz, the general counsel of the Department of Health and Human Services.

    Biden’s communications director, Shailagh Murray, is married to Neil King, one of the Wall Street Journal’s top political reporters. Etc.

    Six major corporate media that control 90 percent of our information have significant business contracts with the government. These media elite are married to, or are relatives of government elite. Most of the remaining family not in media or government work as lobbyists or employees of think tanks. So when you see Cristian Amnpour interviewing James Rubin on CNN, they could be doing it from their home office both naked from their waist down, after screwing each other, now screwing the whole world on behalf of their bosses.
Tantra,
I actually have my own issues with the entertainment industry being distilled down to 6 companies but I wil for the moment take issue with your commentary on the journalists in this list being married to, or close relatives of politicians. Your list is extensive. ThefCt that you did this makes me think you are commenting that no one in the 4th estate should have any relatives in government or ever have been in government. This seems petty. Mr. Stephonopoulos had contacts that he made while by the side of Bill Clinton that made him aware of issues that the normal journalist would not have had. This makes his experience there part and parcel of his arsenal. Take issue with someone being a bad journalist, not with the fact that they have family ties. Even Meagyn Kelly who works for Fox News, while at times working the Faux News bull shit lines, managed to come up with some brilliant reporting on the spot.

If our government is us, then being related to a journalist shouldn't condemn the journalists' reputations automatically, is my point.

I'll comment on this post in another comment.
Just my dos centavos,
Kk

The observant make the best lovers,
I may not do right, but I do write,
I have bliss, joy, and happiness in my life,
Kitkat
Come check out my blog
KItkat1415
check out this post by me
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#39 April Topic Link: What Lies Beneath
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KItkat1415 61F  
20051 posts
1/29/2016 2:44 am

I find it interesting that my Union Brothers and Sisters were complaining about Rick Snyder when he first got voted in. The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, highlighted Rick Snyder's bull shit years ago. The whole "state appointed city manager" thing was also highlighted on that show. This has been on some people's radar. Let's not let them gloss it over any more!

Great post PD!
Kk

The observant make the best lovers,
I may not do right, but I do write,
I have bliss, joy, and happiness in my life,
Kitkat
Come check out my blog
KItkat1415
check out this post by me
Adventures In Body Grooming
#39 April Topic Link: What Lies Beneath
If April Showers Oh Bloody Hell What Kind Of Weather Turns Me On Bloggers Symposium 40


redrockrascal 65M
23580 posts
1/29/2016 5:51 am

The Attorney General of Michigan should be indicting, for reckless attempted murder and assault (or whatever the legal equivalents there are in M, any and all person’s who knew that people were being poisoned and didn’t say anything. Then they all get to stay in a prison fed by the same source(s) that are poisoning the people – with no medical treatment. It wouldn’t bother me much if their families received the same treatment.

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.


kzoopair 73M/71F
25831 posts
1/29/2016 8:00 am

    Quoting KItkat1415:
    I find it interesting that my Union Brothers and Sisters were complaining about Rick Snyder when he first got voted in. The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, highlighted Rick Snyder's bull shit years ago. The whole "state appointed city manager" thing was also highlighted on that show. This has been on some people's radar. Let's not let them gloss it over any more!

    Great post PD!
    Kk
We voted down the emergency manager law only to have the legislature give it a new name and insert a provision to prevent it from appearing on another referendum. After promising to veto any anti-union right to work laws, Snyder caved in to the Koch brothers and signed a right to work law. When Snyder was first running for office against Lansing mayor Virg Bernero he was careful not to commit to much of anything, and he still won. This is the end result of the decline of Michigan's major manufacturing cities and their economic troubles- cities that reliably voted Democratic. Republican government intends to keep its foot on their throats.

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kzoopair 73M/71F
25831 posts
1/29/2016 8:11 am

    Quoting redrockrascal:
    The Attorney General of Michigan should be indicting, for reckless attempted murder and assault (or whatever the legal equivalents there are in M, any and all person’s who knew that people were being poisoned and didn’t say anything. Then they all get to stay in a prison fed by the same source(s) that are poisoning the people – with no medical treatment. It wouldn’t bother me much if their families received the same treatment.
Attorney General Bill Schuette has appointed Todd Flood to investigate the administration. Todd Flood was a contributor to the campaigns of both Rick Snyder and Bill Schuette. So, they're committed to "investigating" themselves. What do you want to bet they'll find themselves blameless?

The damage has been done in Flint. It can't be undone. But Snyder is still stonewalling against pleas to replace the old metal plumbing feeding water into Flint homes. Residents are frightened and they no longer trust this government- they want new piping, and they're skeptical about assurances that the corrosion inhibitors now being added to their water are effective.

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kzoopair 73M/71F
25831 posts
1/29/2016 8:21 am

    Quoting KItkat1415:
    Tantra,
    I actually have my own issues with the entertainment industry being distilled down to 6 companies but I wil for the moment take issue with your commentary on the journalists in this list being married to, or close relatives of politicians. Your list is extensive. ThefCt that you did this makes me think you are commenting that no one in the 4th estate should have any relatives in government or ever have been in government. This seems petty. Mr. Stephonopoulos had contacts that he made while by the side of Bill Clinton that made him aware of issues that the normal journalist would not have had. This makes his experience there part and parcel of his arsenal. Take issue with someone being a bad journalist, not with the fact that they have family ties. Even Meagyn Kelly who works for Fox News, while at times working the Faux News bull shit lines, managed to come up with some brilliant reporting on the spot.

    If our government is us, then being related to a journalist shouldn't condemn the journalists' reputations automatically, is my point.

    I'll comment on this post in another comment.
    Just my dos centavos,
    Kk
I have to say that Tantra makes a good point. I'm sure you recall Steven Colbert's address to the Washington D.C. Correspondents Dinner in 2006, because it was hilarious and scathing. His point was that the "journalists" were so cozy with the politicians they were supposed to be reporting about that they couldn't possibly be counted on to see them objectively, as they've repeatedly demonstrated. There was only nervous laughter in response- they couldn't believe their ears, that he was publicly calling them out for being cronies and shills for the folks they were supposed to be overseeing..

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